HOUSE OF COMMONS
LONDON SWIA OAA

WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF PETER REES,

as ers

IT thought you would be interested to see my

recent speech on the Channel Tunne? in which se

oe emphasised once again: the ha :
“the Aj2,°> in our ‘area:

As there is an indus terial dispute akPoetine:
Hansard and the. Official Report has not yet
been printed, £ enclose the corrected Oeet i
ef both my speech and Mr, vohn Peyton! S. eines
up speech in the debate which took place on
Feiday; 15th June~on the Channel Tunnel.

(MR. PETER REES (Dover): In view of Mr. Speaker's plea for
short speeches, I hope that the h M for Ashton-under-—Lyne
ma (Mr. Sheldon) will forgive me if I do not follow him across the
~~ Channel bridge, and that the rh NM for Grimsby (Mr. Crosland) will
forgive me if I do not follow him down his road to Damascus but,
instead, concentrate on the a to Dever,
7 (ve appreciate that there are national considerations to be
debated. These have been pees and no doubt they will be raised
again by others who do not have aoe a direct and continuing a
-4n the Pinnel as Acero in East Kent. I ones concentrate
"on two local considerations that will influence me in coming to a
“decision,

v S
»

I concede that those vo considerations are to a certain extent
ati ; .
[K contradiction and it is a qn for me to decide how to strike
a balance and where. The two considerations are the impact on the
environment and ea the impact on employment in East Kent.
(on the matter of the environment, my constitusnts are,
and have been for many years, rightly sensitive about the impact of
oeaaue Channel traffic. The sad accident at Watersend in. my

constituency last weekend served to emphasise once again the extent

=

Y to which people living in and near Dover are exposed to. danger

4 even and to a continuous battering of their sensibilities By. this

% cross Channel ‘traffie, lily rh F described Bast Rent. as the sump

4 of this ‘country through which the traffi C=

wig) (OR. PEYTON: My soot h and 1 ‘FP must not wrong me in this Way.
x Sirgtililics
WS I have said frequently that there is a Ganeer of an attractive and -

beautiful part of this country being treated as a sump by this almost

uncheckable stream of traffic.

(ie. REES: mI apologise to my rvh F if T did not Ver hay

Bi i a “Le tie

exactly. I know €@ and pay public tribute to his continuing concern
ee On Bast ik Kent. We were scpprco tative of his visit to the area

Pe

. : am = -
aut We MUpe Lal We Sllall see mImucn more OL Nim at tnis projec
Augie

goes ahead. There is cont eny ans concern about the pene: on the
enytromleny, and this manifests itself particularly iff the road
system. We are glad that my rh F has decided in favour of the
eastern bypass to the port of Dover, a decision that pasybeen taken
not a moment too smu soon. _No doubt before the summer holidays
there will be at least two weekends when ere ae back bs
adden. and even, Canterbury. That is the kind of problem
that we have to consider. | . , :
Will a tunnel ease or increase our problemjin East Kent?
My rh F has told us of the 43 per cent. increase in lorries and
se hs likely doubling of passenger accompanied cars by 1980.. All those
STactors are of crucial importance to. people ,in and around Dover.
Can we be certain that a tunnel will divert traffic, and particularly
freight traffic away from the road syseem on to the rail systen,
or will it attract more traffic down to East Kent?
(iil. British Railways be able to improve their handling
. Vinriivs olney
facilities, their services, their platforms, bridges and at?—ek—
_ infrastructural, pai fie woe Will they be able to offer
such a good service at competitive prices that the logic for
manufacturers in the Dose! 2 Merseyside - and pe the
fo. Giver the h M for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Ogden )/ and Birminghen
[0 send their freight by rail rather than by road as they do now? ,
It_is no #2%z1 good expressing pious hopes that that will be
the consequence of building the tunnel. I want to know in more
detail what positive steps aoe be taken to makereent in that freight
will be channelled away from the road to the rail system.
(ie cannot be asked to take a decision about the tunnel in
vacpuo. It is not a qn whether we have a tunnel or not, ont; the

Seen

precise cost of the tunnel. The qn to consider is what would be

WANS 3 EMM AB NINA LE HN UILGe YUIEIVL VUE VaAKNGe 44 4H 42465474 YILAY

the people of East Kent should know the alternatives x=xa if a tunnel

is not constructed.,
v rigtimee,
fur theré/\be sufficient capacity in our existing ports and road
systems to handle the inevitable increase in traffic by 1980 and
1990? If we do not have a tunnel, will there be a need for extra

capacity at Ramsgate? Will my r h F sanction major developments
cc

L
at Porro Byydeeborough? What ‘are the real choices open to us
in East Kent in environmental terms? @

My rh Fthe M for Ashford Cir xRemstts ) (Mr. Deedes) touched

-on the development of lateral roads. In my view, tunnel or no tunnel,

oe we need lateral roads because heavy lorries switch from the

3 Luv

yA

fry Comti lv onys fy inition, iS Hw iting Sugietd fo
M2/A2 to the M20/A20. Denton hes-to-carry traffic for which

ives rut cling nd
it is—net—constructed. The country roads have been called upon

Confit vd

— to carry traffic for which they were not designed. Tunnels, or no

{oynliy
betazsay ead plans has my rh F for our Leger roads?

My rh F has shown concern and sensitivity over the works
But [dave (ll Ul dua frp
that will be necessary if the tunnel goes through. phe-estinate

cé the borehole at the Ayecliffe Eevete has touched off a certain

amount of concern and alarm.

K follows

cone hrarrrtsperatye an centering ine seats reece oie EEE EE SDR SNe ean eas ene netnceeern aces

DA aio OT RL eT ITS AR oe

(Mr. Peter ees spkg) ohs J RRRVAT fart ben egy

If that is ang example of how the prvuject may proceed,/fit is not

. Cginsu Tan ra

generally felt that there has been aaa Gonpeysstiong = an
| ied

adequate chance for local sentiment to be FAS. I know that the

bore hole itself is not a very, large project, but there have been
——- hws nuk
several chanses of pein and M—-+fces an impact in Dover.

if the major project goes through @ I echo the concern of m
7

th F the ht for Ashford Giry-Deedes) that the statutory procedures
__ Mey
wihtiee be regarded as sufficient to enable the Govt to dispense

with some form of public inquiry. , It would not be sufficent for
WR ye . In Wasfinn for
us grély to exanich it coolly up here, There nust be some

2

memecsa opportunity for individuals in East Kent who are likely

e
age

to be directly or indirectly affected to voice their concern ana [0 Vf

Cur
Eg2 their pa i Car problems to be taken into account.

‘So I hope that there will be some opportunity for a public
Alfitegn
inquiry, J do not suggest to my rh F exactly what form that shd

take. pans ) .
[ As for employment, it is not perhaps generally appreciated

by h lis who represent other parts of the country that there is and
for Sore “Uninre , A
has bech{a-guall Bue nagging tyifeNiAss unemployment problem in
One
East Sent, particularly in the towns of Yover, Deal f Sandwich
lite Mors fe Goutileency
in my constituency ‘and in that of my h F the li for the Isle of Thanet

(rm. RigeteTavies) « Chis unemployment pI an tenkful to say, is
“yielding at last to the Govt's measures, and we appreciate that.
le €2- look forward to an increasing volune of employment and
job eppereumeies: It is not enough just to offer manual jobs;
ve need a whole range of Fe in East Kent for school leavers.
‘ [ me single biggest employer or group of employers in my
, -

constituency is the port of Dover and the ferry operators and those

. : ° os 2 a4-
who provide services connected with the ferries based on the port.

AAL shack 5

Vou corte ale las: gi ete ees aee ge *

8 eR '

ANCVIitadly, there Nas been some dae al the YVuwicabion
,

of che een at that there may be a loss of

beeen 3,000 and 4,000 jovs by 1980 and more by 199,

I appreciate that that does not mean that the job oppPtunities

will be diminished below those available at present, but it means

thet the continuing exmansion of employment opportunities

©

offered particularly by the port of Dover may be vestricted if the

channel tunnel is implemented. Perhaps this is not Saag
in the flinr's field but we cannot divorce this matter Scongthe
ae oo. or? .
tunnel. Perhaps it isjiore a matter be the Secy of State for
Trade and Industry but there are various questions which
oo ?
inevitably arise. Whet kind of services will be permitted at the

station at Cheriton? If a wide range of services were pernitted,
it would offer opportunities for people from Dover comparable to

those that they enjoy at the porte 3
pitt ale
ee

‘To proceed with increased services and facilities at

Cheriton will militate against those environmental factors to
which I have drawn attention, but this is a question of striking a

fine balance. What kind of station does my rh I envisage at

Cheriton?
: ay
- , st QQ n
[ A8eam wees we have our fair share of office development an
industrial development cerificates. If ier is to be a

We
aimeitietion of opportunites in Dover ererefshd be )sone compensating
eee
a
deve lopment allowed for and encouraged.

m~ ;
[ svove all - again, I recognise the pos sible inconsistency

between this point and earlier points of mine - what lind of

computition does the Ilinr envisage between the rerry ae and

the tunnel opermtors? Alt ough, of course, we want to see traffic
tt Jaf yha&

diverted to the tunnel f{the environmental consitecrations are

paranount — none the less,;1 do not want to see terns of trade

of business.

so rigged thet the ferry operators are driven out
"geneval economic and strategic grounds, So some reassurance here
is important.
[ 22thown we appreciate that it is not preimarily Govt money
Se

that will be involved, the Govt ure, as it were, the insurer

x band
of last resort, They are underwriting’ thejissue. Therefore,
there cee always be the peupEes OG) viaee if 9 SRE m= contrary
to the project tions of Coopers and Lybrand , the Seamer does not
prove a commercial success, theme] = sapere: to rig trade

‘in favour of the tunnel. ‘That. I would deprecate.
hid { = hd (Mo frou

ez know that there 46 a weighty intern: tional, case Tor the

oe ‘but I an concerned that my constituency should not be
Saalted to ‘bear (ht eventer part of the cost in environmental

and employment cerns. On the information available to me
- I appreciate that we ha ve had tne Eeoronig-€onautvan ds nen port
and the latest blue report from Coopers and Lybrand - LIQ Cre
epye there are too many unanswered questions, too many hypotheses
and too nany details, but details of crucial importance,
that have not been dealt with.| So I hope that the se will not be
asked to take a décision in a hurry. If it is; I must express this
personal warning. I am afraid that the decision may be taken
on the basis of xcouctenxamt emotion and not on a cool appraisal

4

of the facts. <A decision based on oO INE may not be the
TA
decision that my rh F wants, and it #&% be the ri;nt dec cision

r

for this country.

e ‘3 Pave Meet tet ;
ere ter Treat ot ee TTY

Ae TN EO ae

_ ‘THE-MINR POR—PRANSPORT |

ec cee tA EO LNA CTL LE A Ltt
3, veo a, PEYTONE I am grateful to the r hGthe M for
Sheffield, Park (Mr. Mulley) for the courteous way in thich he

; has ore on behalf of the Opposition. a or cneries at the

set ob bagedehe be that ‘the Govt welcome’ this denete as an

S C.it
Opportunity to learn something of parlmny opinion, and it has

proyed a very useful opportuni Ltyo Opinions on the merits of
= Cet
aya have varied for a long time. Lord Randolph Churchill]

-
ina colourful moment, made the remark:

OL. "Tne reputation of England has hitherto depended
ie) bot .

upon her being, as it were, virgo intac ta."

cc Gladstone felt:

mae "It is not so much that I am in favour of the tunnel
as I an “opposed. to the opponents of itos

(‘xe is not always that I find myself overwhelmed by my sympathy
. for statements made by Mr. Gladstone but on this occasion
I fina myself in some warm accord with hin.
(me rh G commented on the time it took to settle
. planning appeals. We are not concerned with planning today,
bat I cannot resist the comnent that it has always been ny
__ private opinion that planners - and I em not a planner -
‘have 1] laboured under the delusion ‘that they will live for twe
or three times the allotted span and thet pnereicEe is
on their side. I can tell the rhG that if we did introduce
a Bill, as I have said we would in the event of a favou.able
decision by the Govt, it would be a short Money Bill and would

be introduced by the end of July.
Aberin niet

i has

~~-~--in his-complaint that he ip not got enough information.

I have some sympathy with him over the lack of time to digest

At, but if he goes away with a suitable trunk at the weekend

with the information already available in it he will be able
to spend a very fruitful timem and realise that a great many —
of the qns he has so shrewdly asked are answered there.

(x recognise that rail investment is very important.
I will certainly look with the railways as a matter of urgency /
at possibilities of their making some early announcement of
their plans. Incidentally, it would be my hope to make sone

announcement about the Govt's plans for the railways before

_we rise for the Summer Recess.

' ( MR. MULLEY: For the railways in this country?
MR. PEYTON: Yes. |

The r h G also asked about consultations with the EEC.
| p
These would have to take place. Many egnsport Minrs in the

Community have already expressed to me their views, or the

views of their countries, on this project¢ eat hk would wish to
A

“report the matter to the Commisson just as soon as there was

a project to te reported, but until the French and British

wiluessfave reached agreement at least on the next stage, vo

"go ahead, I do not thirxthat there is yet anything worth

reporting.

ee
——

~,

oe og TOS, ' =
ae ne eee ee

(..R, PEYTON SP VAKING) _

enn

I am pereieniarty erateful to the rh M for Grimsby
a {Mr.Croslond) for the way he approached this matter, I welcome
moet of what he said. I believe that on the question of
ele raising of money with Govt guarantee there is a certain
amount £ of highly misleeding advice in orbit. Some of it
has come my way too. I believe the position is that it
would not vehecessaty in law for there to be a Govt guarantee.

ree . i ;
sem, With a long pEotuacred opdration very much of a public

Ocean character, ft is unlikely that money
would be raised very Gee hy peut ctor on the eKontinent in
-. supvort of such a project except at an exorbitant rate of
interest, -
Ss ee My rh F the M for Ashford (Mr. Deedes) and my h and 1 F
a the lf for Dover (Mr. Peter Rees) both made very discerning
speeches, My h and 1F faces problems in ais CO eee I
want to say noe much I appreciate the restraired attitude he tekes;
z 2
these difficult problems and also the concern he always snows to
reflect the interests of his constitve nts to me. The same goes To}
? A my hF the Mi for Folkestone (Nr.Costain) ), ho, under a vow of

silence, & Qe has peen sitting behind me. ie finds = himself

readily released trom these volug as Sele as he leaves the <=
- name. My h F the M.for Maidstone ine “eLs ) made comments abou}
‘the beauties of Folkestone, He does not seem to have fully
eeeereeteted those beauties, I had the utmost difficulty in vresirs
my h F the M for Folkestone from Leaving nis seat end I would
advise my h F ihe M for Maidstone to keep away from him,
f . - If the hu for Ashton~under—Lyne (ir Sheldon) vi11 fox
for] ive me I a not answer him at length. I am aware Of nis
arguments and his concern that alternatives have not een ade qu2at4

he ee

considered. L'nope he will-do me the favour of rcacing hat I
ae ieee“ Che Recher ne eg ee on cel ee) a es ne i Pe ay ne ee hee ee fe Ten Ee

“acknowledgement of the fact that I saw him and Professor Baker,

I was gratezul honage the support of the h M for

vy 1
sided iis

Liverpool, West Derby (Mr.Ogden) and of my h F the M for Cheltenhax

=, (Sir D,Dodds~Parker) , who has been for.so iong such a staunch

supporter of the project and in the course of a very short

speech ailowed some sign of his support to creep in towards the

ia)
fog

—- I am grateful to him. ee coe ee es oct

I have alresdy answered the point raised pi the bh M for
Sutton and Cheam (Mr.Tope) mx about consultation w the BEY, I would
Only eco (hai 1 Ghouent at was aeeauilr my duty to consult the House
Commons before I went about consulting a mass of ont inental bodies

not immediately concerned with the problem,

"> --T was very grateful for the support of -the h N for Glasgor;
Woodside (Mr.Carmichael ). Perhaps he would be kind enough to edvj

the vw h M for Crimeby On the State of Scobtich Opinien. 1 oo mos

think that the r h G was here when the h G made his speech, but the

h G said that he had heard widely expressed opiniong in Scotland

ae
that the-Tunnel could do no harm to Scottish industry and mignt evs

“pe of considerable benefit.

separates moderate statement from hyperbole.

To my h F the M for Croydon,South (Sir R,Thompson) I. cm cn

)

express very great sympathy. The destruction of his house and the

almost similar fate which he apprehends for his constituency is

indeed a dark prospect. But I think he at some stages in nis speed!

allowed himself to stray ever so little over the boundary which

KK folla,.

tema bape

\ ie Peyton spoke 1

A parking lot for sugeernaut lorries as the ultimate fate for Kent

is, I,suggest, a slight exaggeration. Moreover, it remains the

COANE

Govt's hope cat if the tunnel is built Kent will be spared something
of that fate. llowe ever, I assure my h F that I understand his

schenai one: ands, oven i: he does not ultinately get satisfaction
over his house, it will aprbetiadig be my hope to satisfy him

thet every effort which can be made to. assist his constituency

will most certainly be taken.

wa ; IE The h MN for Kings ton upon Hull East (tr. Pres cott) made
several points on behalf of the shipping industry, as did my h F the
as MN for Dorset, West (Mr. Wingfield Digby). ‘The h M mentioned his

essocistion with the National Union of Seamen. If that union

Abies oe ke

iene care to PP 2 Vepueetse to see me _to ex xpress atone:

on “this subject, I shall be very rendy to, receive it at any
tine. As (A regards the shipping industry, also, I am sure thet
the Chumber of Shipping will be the first to admit that I have
pressed upon it opportunities to come and express its views to me,
and I now repeat publicly that it will be welcome at any time to do,
tne nain points and anxieties expressed by r h and h Ms }
have concerned the diversion of road traffic to rail, the planning
of the railway link, the question whether a cvunnel is necessary
at ali, and the desire shat the expression of local opinion

should be- adequately met. “he Hse has been, concerned also

aoout the environment and avout regional -
about the timing of further steps. I shall now endeavour to cea?
as well as I can with some of those matters.

[(sirct, on-tye-qeestion of aisansien of tout tio po est
QR At ee RH SB
the consultants expect that 60 per cent, of tye freight #eteethroush

NS lapel coll ie
cone arene KY Ke ea ALD WD Ce os ge bat ae 2) OS mea ae ene oe
the tunnel witt-be vail freight. I an currently discussing with

der Ch.

British Ralivtays and means of increasing the amount of freight usis
CNnEe TUNNEL. ANCL OCT oe AE) ~ Go PUSS UU YIIG Pushy szartovuu

aout as serimnetion in relation to the various kinds of tratfl1e

using the tunnel, I should emphasise that the operating authority

vv

will be under constraints not to inhibit the use of the tunnel

by any shone enlistees deta road or - rail. It aoes not mean
, ae .

Ma free Go de whatever they Vines

that the Gove ds

[ stow, the question of railway planning. The final planning
“will await the decision to go ahead, and will then take plate over
the following 12 months at the same time as the £28 million

programme of work to which I referred in my opening speech.

Mr. Peyton spkg

(ite h and rh Ms will look at some of the documents that heve

.. evel
been produced) at some of the traffic figures 5 and. will ponder

on some of those to which I referred vais qoenie Ue do not believe

eee they em een chal lence. the need for addit tional tr

facilities. Some may even conclude that the tunnel ;
aie a useful part in meeting that need which will not just. go away.
[ me regional aspect raises gqns which I would not wish to answer
briefly at the end of a debate. it is something which the Govt take
Bor nOuesy and will certainly seek to deal with fully in any White
Paper accompanying the ennouncement of the Govt's decision.
I would be wrong if I sought to ignore the remarks made on both sides

LS es He _ about the timing of the following § eu ePe- What I said*in-~

“my opening eneeen was that the Govt are now comadder ine: because
is no point in hanging about all the material available to them and

-to the Hse as a-matter of urgency in an attempt to reach a conclusior
ert
szese=e whether this great project shoulda be advanced by a further

stagee

ae If the decision were affirmative the Govt would wish to announg
that decision before the end of July_in a White Paper and at the saurs
Oe Ann ottiiay hom Peet an aad oe (2. ¢
time publish the short Honey Bill ¢e-wirtch T-referred. ia Scene
ce es Ace 5 Coe tT a
suggesting that -ay—r-h-F_the-header ofthe—Hse would wish to see

(\

such a Bill railroaded through. I am certain that the Govt
will take due note of what has been said by all h and rh Ms about
“the need to avoid undue haste. I hope in return that the Hse will
take note of the point I tried to make this morning that projects
of this kind simply cannot be put in cold storage for a year

A as my h rhe M for Faversham (Mr. Moate) asked.

/